Season 2, Episode 1: Mountain Child Valley Society
with Edna Ann Fairbrother, Inez Smith, and Nicole Johnston
To kick off Season 2 of The Gravity Well podcast, I am joined by Edna Ann Fairbrother (Little Moustache), (Wynonna) Inez Smith, and Nicole (Weasel Woman) Johnston of the Mountain Valley Child Society. They explain the more than a decades long fight against the expropriation of mineral resources (gravel and coal) and water from the Piikani Nation, in southern Alberta. Nicole, Edna, and Inez discuss the impacts of coal mining on their communities, highlighting the lack of proper consultation and the environmental and cultural consequences. They stress the importance of preserving water, biodiversity, and future generations, advocating for informed decision-making and community involvement. The episode underscores the need for collaboration and continued efforts to protect the land and its inhabitants.
Chapter 1 – Edna, Inez, and Nicole Introductions
Alex:
Welcome to The Gravity Well Podcast with Alex and Jenny. Here you break down heavy ideas with us to understand their complexities and connections. Our mission is to work through your dilemmas with you in conversation and process making our world a better place for all.
Jenny :
We acknowledge that we live on the traditional territories of treaties, 4, 6, 7, 8, and 10. The ancestral homelands of diverse First Nations, Inuit, and Metis. Peoples whose ancestors have walked this land since time immemorial and whose histories, languages, and cultures continue to influence our vibrant communities. We pay respect to indigenous people through our ethical relationship building efforts. Our community agreement asks for genuine conversations, real hearts, open minds, and different perspectives in conflict. Let’s rely on our six W system and live participant feedback. What matters most is finding common ground.
Alex :
We dedicate this podcast to our children, nieces, nephews, grandchildren, and all future generations. The gravity well is on YouTube and streaming wherever you get your podcasts. Join us at thegravitywell.net.
Jenny:
Welcome, welcome. Happy New Year, if I can say that in February. I’m grateful to have the Mountain Child Valley Society with me today. I’ll let everybody do a proper introduction in a second here. This is our first episode of the year. We’ve been busy since November. These ladies especially have been in the courtroom, on the streets, helping organise our communities in southern Alberta with respect to coal and water safety, quality and security. It’s been a lot happening that’s been thrown at us. We’re going to take some time to dissect what it is, what the problem is, what we’ve been dealing with, and then we’ll get into some ideas around what comes next, what we’re doing together from this work. I’m just going to quickly introduce myself. I’m Jenny Yeremiy, I am a geophysicist by background and I worked in the oil and gas industry for 22 years.
Jenny:
I started in development, I was drilling oil and gas wells and then started looking at liability: the cleanup of oil and gas sites. In 2020 I was really proud to have the opportunity to work with the money that was injected into the industry to address the abandonment and reclamation work in the province. As it turns out, I was a lobbyist for indigenous led closure work in the province. I’m really proud to say that in fact in all three provinces, that was something I was advocating for. With that understanding, here I am doing this podcast trying to make sure that people understand the issues that we have on the landscape and who are the faces of the battles that we’re having to try and make sure that we preserve our water and our biodiversity and our communities. I’m going to stop there. Nicole, you’re first on my screen. If you wouldn’t mind introducing yourself please and we’ll go from there.
Nicole:
Okay. Hello, my name is Weasel Woman. My English name is Nicole Johnston. I am from the Peigan Reserve, the Peigan Nation located east of Pincher Creek. I am indigenous advocate. I do some work. Started doing work up here in Calgary regarding issues that dealt with the indigenous people here in the city. And I started doing that work all on my own, whereas if I saw something regarding our issues, I went directly to the main source to have it dealt with. That’s the kind of work I started doing on my own plus the school part of it. Seeing what was happening back home and the work that I did, I just put it together and started moving forward to inform as many people as we can about this issue because not a lot of people I knew knew about it. I knew we had to get the word out there and I started helping in that way with events we put up and the walks we had across Pincher Creek for McLeod, Lethbridge, and just info sessions. That’s what I’m doing now and still having, I got a lot of focus on three big issues right now. My plate’s full.
Jenny:
Yes, ours all are, absolutely. Thank you for all the work you do, Nicole, and we’ll get into that a bit more. Edna, do you mind going next? Please.
Edna:
Good afternoon and Happy New Year, I’m really glad we’re the first ones of the year to be on your podcast. I’m really glad that we met on that first rally. My name is Edna Fairbrother Little Moustache. My first name is Centre Pole Woman. I became involved in the Grassy Mountain way back in 2015. I was doing a lot of the research for Mountain Child Valley Society, but I wasn’t a member per se, but I was a member per se. During this time here, I would like to share some history in regards to this. I know the young ladies here have some really valuable information to share about what we’ve been doing. We’ve been, not to take up too much time, but we’ve been handing out and as I have been handing out information packages and we’ve been going home to home and talking with people and we’re really well received, mind you we’re on a meagre.
Edna:
It means no budget. We do what we can. We’re informing people, our family as well. We took the information from our Chief, chief and council responses, highlighting some important points in the responses. We included our letter from MCVS in response to these AER documents that were being read out loud by our nation. We also have been talking to other people and in the community here and just spreading the word and just making them aware of what is in the letter to take the time to read it, give them the information and take the time to read it. I know it’s quite lengthy of the document, like the six page letter and it’s hard to read, but we are helping them along and we just take out important points. We’re just basically informing our people and trying to get our survey pushed out for as much information as we can of the lack there of the information that’s coming from the community because we know we don’t have that community consultation. And I can go further and further, but I’ll give Inez the opportunity to introduce yourself. And it’s good to see you guys. Good to see you Nicole.
Jenny:
Wonderful. Thank you so much. Edna. Yes, Inez, please go next.
Inez:
Hi, my name is Wynonna Inez Smith. I’m from Piikani Nation and a recent graduate of the University of Lethbridge. I’ve been a part of the Mountain Valley Child Society since 2021. That’s when the group first was formed.
Jenny:
Do you mind offering, what did you study at the University of Lethbridge?
Inez:
I studied psychology and minored in indigenous business management.
The Leadership of Edna, Inez, and Nicole Throughout the Grassy Mountain AER Hearings
Jenny:
Excellent. Right on. Thank you so much. Yes, I had the opportunity to listen to some of what you both offered Nicole and Edna during the first hearing in Pincher Creek. If you don’t mind, I’m just going to back up a bit and let everybody know what’s happened here and you’re welcome to correct me where I air, but we had, at the beginning of December, there was a public hearing that was made available for the public in Pincher Creek. It was open to anyone who was willing to speak for or against the project and it was limited to the Grassy Mountain Project at that time. Nicole, Edna and Inez offered some comments there. Edna, do you mind offering just some of the comments that you provided the Alberta Energy Regulator in December on behalf of the Piikani Nation?
Edna:
Okay. Okay, thank you. We did attend and I didn’t anticipate speaking, but when a lady came up to me and asked me if I wanted to speak and then once she did, I realized that there was no opposition from the Nation in attendance except for Inez and Nicole and a few others. I thought, okay, well I’m going to speak about the history, like I said, this goes back, there is history. We’re not consulted properly. All the information stays within the managerial level, chief and council, managerial level, employee level, but it doesn’t trickle down to us. That was what I wanted to get across to them and not being made aware of this in giving us the opportunity to speak and having a non-native lady, our lawyer, our lawyer, try and silence us. It was really infuriating and I was kind of glad she did that because it just showed the world as to how we’re suppressed.
We’re suppressed and oppressed and not having our say is the opposition for every action. There’s the opposite reaction, simple. It’s just plain and simple. Having been the opposition, we have to educate the leadership as to the what ifs, the what ifs are the big thing. That was our goal is to try and make them understand our side, that we’re opposed to it. Because we’re not consulted properly. We could have been prepared to show the AER, whoever was watching, the state of our community. And anytime we’re consulted, we’re not properly consulted. There are times, I’m going to talk about history here to change our voting, to change our electoral system. All it was was somebody coming around asking a question, do you agree? Do you not agree? Well, they took it and ran with that and all it was was a questionnaire when it was supposed to be a referendum.
And in our community, democracy doesn’t work in our community. It does not work. People look and say, “Yeah, you guys get everything for free.” We don’t get anything for free. If I was to be so…right now, I’m stuck. We all have our personal stories and for the whole chief and council to speak for every member I personally believe, and I strongly believe that they must go to every home and to see where they’re coming from, why are they against it? And history has proven that we just get steamrolled every time. The dam, for instance, in my lifetime, how many times have they imposed these things upon us? The dam, we were against the dam because of the changing of the waters. And lo and behold, now we suffered the consequences of that decision. The $64 million deal that we had back in the day, we were battled on four fronts every corner, northeast, west and south.
And it’s for, we call them our four corners. We had our own local government, we had the Alberta government, we had the federal government, and we had the community that was for it. The opposition and no one’s lobby against it were battled on forefronts at every direction we had to battle because we were getting sold out. We had nine land claims in that claim that there was no money dollar affix to those. And trying to educate the community on that saying, how are you settling something that does not have a dollar on it? We need to have that. We need to have that. And now again, they told us in that deal, he’s going to be better off. He’s going to have this, but now we’re suffering the consequences of that. Again, the people that are in opposition, the people that don’t know, the people that don’t fully understand and are not consulted with the truth.
You could be consulted, but not with the truth and the facts and the whole truth. But we are the ones that suffer those consequences, the children, the unborn children are suffering those consequences because it seems like services are getting cut here and there left and right. And our unborn children are coming into this world with a debt, which is unfair because we’re supposed to be protecting their path when they’re born. That’s the history of that. And in all of this. We are not given these opportunities, Had we proper consultation… in this day and age, our voices are finally being heard. Back in the day, back in the eighties and nineties when we were battling, our voices were still really low, muffled. Our people were just coming out of residential schools, they were conditioned not to speak out.
We’re not part of it now, we’re survivors of that. We’re trying to stop that intergenerational trauma. Now it seems like our new Indian Agents are our own chief and council, their fiduciary responsibility falling to the wayside because all their people are the ones that they look after are their own relatives. And I could speak further to that with the policies that we have in our nation. And I’ve become a very cynic and a sceptic to our own policies because they’re not for everyone. They protect only the ones in power. And I mean power rush, that’s a bad word to say, but the ones in managerial positions, the ones in leadership, those are the ones that are protected. Those are the ones that get everything. There’s other nations that are watching us fight this battle and they say that our poor children are always being used.
Back to history, going back to the $64 million settlement, our high school students were used, 18 year old’s were used. And in our electoral system, we can only vote when we’re 21. Once they promised these 18 year old’s a lap of luxury. After this, they were going to get their distro. Yeah, they got a distro, but they basically enticed to sign on that dotted line and vote a yes. The first round was a no. We said “No”, we didn’t want that $64 million because there was no dollar affixed to those nine cases. Sadly they changed our name to include the 18 year olds, and that’s why we’re beginning now. We used to be called Peigan. We’re Piikani now because of that deal. And I still have the document, I still have the document here, and this is the document that I’ve had. And back in the day there was a lobbyist group against this.
There was a strong opposition to that deal. And now like I say, democracy doesn’t work. History is repeating itself and including our children as the only children along this highway, I mean the Old Man River, Crowsnest Pass, St. Mike’s Pincher Creek schools, Fort McLeod schools, none of those schools brought their children to the Grassy Mountain open pit site. But our children were clearly exploited, using them as numbers and back there I thought we got rid of tokenism. Our children aren’t tokens for the elevation of somebody because that’s who we’re fighting for is our future generations. Our future generations. The water, the ones that are not at the table, the eagles, the deer, the elk, the moose, the fish, the birds, the berries, the trees, the shrubs, the trees, the cottonwoods, the cottonwoods is what we need for our sun dances, our ceremonies.
And if the river is poisoned, those trees are not going to grow. And if they have the foresight to think of that, then more power to them because then if they have that, then they can see, okay, well yeah, history is reporting itself. A big conglomerate is coming in. Now we’re fighting on every facet, a conglomerate, a foreign government, our own federal government, provincial government, our own local government, and the community that is out there that is for it. We go into the community and we get looked, stared down, but we still smile and wave and still have that respect for them. But these guys don’t understand. And if I could have spoken more and longer and been more prepared, then this would’ve all come out. And trying to be silenced is what irked me because this lady does not speak for everyone. She’s not coming to my house. She’s not one who shook my hand or Inez’s hands or Nicole’s hands. That’s the first time my old eyes laid eyes on her. I didn’t know who she was.
Jenny:
I’d like to clarify for people because I know what you’re speaking to. At the hearing there were people that had put their names forward in advance, but to your point, they were aware of the process and had submitted their presentations early on. Maybe Nicole, I can flip it back to you and you can speak a little bit about what happened and offer your thoughts about what was said that day, the first hearing day.
Nicole:
When we spoke at the AER in Pincher Creek.
Jenny:
Yeah and feel free to speak more about what’s happened since. But yes, Edna was explaining that initially you weren’t given the opportunity to speak and there was some back and forth discussion amongst the AER panel and the lawyer for the Piikani Nation Council that prevented you from speaking initially. Yeah. I just wanted you to expand on that and then feel free to say whatever you wanted to add and then I’ll go back to you Inez.
Nicole:
For me, it was expected for them to stand up and object to us speaking. But what got me was when the lawyer did stand up and speak and stated how we should be speaking or what we should be speaking about and we couldn’t speak for the Nation members or telling us basically we just couldn’t speak. I was really thankful for the other Inez and Edna for getting up to speak and speaking on what they put out there so that others would know that our people are, they don’t know what’s happening. I guess a lot has not known what has happened up to this point. Some don’t even realise how far back it went. And we’re shocked to hear when I said it went back as far as 2013, how could they not hear from 2013 till now about everything that’s happening now and being brought out.
We let her know, we let the lawyer there know that she does not speak for us as the Piikani Nation members. And I also, when I got up to speak, I am going to say the beginning of my speech, the introduction, but as I got to the end of it, it came directly from myself and it came from what I was wanting to speak on. I let them understand that, trying to put it in nicer words but that they don’t speak for us. And the AER…everything I was putting together, I wanted them to know that it’s a no-go for Piikani because of the fact that the members are the ones that do hold that power. Our chief and council, whether they like it or not, we do. We hold, that’s our power. We put them there and they were going against us regarding this coal mining and not properly informing the people, not doing any referendums, not having any info sessions on it.
Nothing was said on this. It was quite a shock to most members when we started bringing coal mining out. There was even back in the first time MVCS started, not a lot of people knew at that time too. I barely caught on, but I jumped onto the group there when they first started and was listening on and myself too, trying to figure out what was happening. It was news to me when I first heard being more focused on the work that I do up here. I started focusing more back at what’s going on back home, did not like it and I thought, no, I can do more. I can help out more. I can offer what I can. And started offering to do these events, these walks, these info sessions, putting the word out there, helping to spread things such as that pamphlet there you were holding what the other ladies were doing and then their information packages going out and trying to speak out at our band meeting, which was a fun thing to do, but
Jenny:
Yes. And you filmed live. Yeah. I just want to walk through a couple of the things that if you don’t mind, attended the hearing, spoke there and then continued on the ground as there were threats of a potential referendum happening right away, staying in contact with the Chief and Council, putting out for the public what were you hearing, and what the responses from the Nation members as you spoke about it. Nicole, you went on to help organize three events. I am going to have to get a copy of that ladies and I can share it with this, this and we can highlight some of the keynote keynotes. But let me pause there. Sorry, Inez, can you offer a little bit of your thoughts on this and then we’ll circle back around with some more. Thank you.
Inez:
Sure. I spoke at the first AER meeting. I knew it was going on. I didn’t know that there was a process to talk, to register and even to be there. I registered for tickets but I didn’t know there was a whole other process to it. And they don’t advertise that. They don’t talk about the process and are open to Albertans about that. I went on the second day not knowing, but wanting to speak. I was prepared with a speech. And in my studies I’ve learned that in indigenous negotiations you have to put a chair aside for the animals, for whoever you’re speaking to. If they’re not there, put a chair aside for the water, the animals, plants, and buffalo.
That makes it known that they’re there, they’re present, they’re alive, they have spirits. And nobody was speaking about the animals’ water. Nobody was speaking on it. As a youth, I really felt that it was my duty to do that. And especially being raised by my grandpa, Nick Smith, he was a traditional Blackfoot elder and he really talked about the mountains a lot and he was worried about them as well. And he taught me a lot. I knew I had to speak on the mountains, on the animals. I went there knowing that this was going to be my speech, this was what I was going to tell them, that who they’re forgetting, these things are alive, the animals, the water, they’re alive and they need to be represented efficiently. I went there and I told them like I’m speaking for these people, I’m speaking on behalf of the children that aren’t aware of this.
I’m speaking for the elders that are not aware of this. My mom didn’t even know about it and she didn’t know why I was coming for a couple of days staying at her house and that I had business to do in Picture Creek. She didn’t know anything about it. And I told her, well, don’t worry about it mom. I’m going to go speak on it for our family. Incredible. I also had to represent everyone else who didn’t know about it. I told them basically that what they’re doing is environmental terrorism. It’s economic terrorism upon us, upon the first nations, upon this land, upon the water animals and they needed to be told this. That’s basically what it is and it’s a big thing that they’re going to be doing to us.
Updates from the Hearings and Community Gatherings Opposed to Eastern Slopes Coal Mining
Jenny:
Yeah, thank you. I want to reflect a little bit of what you guys are saying in my words and then please correct me. What I learned when I was doing this land stewardship work within the industry is 80% of the critical habitats in Canada are on Indigenous territories, or are on indigenous lands. Disproportionately your communities represent critical habitats, right? The biodiversity, all of these things that help our ecosystem function. All the hurt that you’re describing over the years is us allowing this hurt to happen on the landscape and not paying attention. When you talk about corruption, I just want to talk about a little bit of what you’re talking about. How the top are making decisions without us. Coal mining, I can tell you I door knocked during the election. Everybody said they’ve promised the government, the existing government looking to reelect the UCP has promised that they won’t reopen the coal mining in the Eastern slopes.
People allowed, on the promise of that’s why they got elected. I can tell you that was something I heard a lot at the doors. People wanted that reassurance. To your point, Inez, that it is terrorism, they’re making decisions against what we want as a people. And I just wanted to say that because I am not suggesting that I’ve suffered more or anything. I’m saying I’ve seen the tip of the iceberg. You guys have been experiencing this for generations, as you say. Anyway, I just wanted to reframe that. I hope that I want people to understand that this isn’t something that doesn’t impact all communities. It impacts every community in Canada to let Indigenous communities be exploited in this way, let’s say. Is that fair? Is that a fair assessment of what’s been happening?
Edna:
Yes, and Grassy Mountain in our backyard, hence our involvement. To me it’s really moving to see all these, I’ll say cultures come together for so long it’s been us and them, us and them, we battled, we battled. Sometimes we didn’t get along with the next neighbouring community, but now we’re all fighting the same battle. We’re going up the same beast, fighting the same Goliath. We’re all the little Davids now, but it’s in our backyard for us. We’ve always thought of everybody else in all our training. We always think forward. Not always, not all of us have this ability, but we have to think of those generations and our grandfathers, Nicole’s grandfather was a spiritual man as well. Our grandfather, traditional men always told us to respect those, to respect those and to think of the future generations. And our battle is to do that, to secure that land for our future generations.
It really moves me to see everybody moving in the same direction because we’re starting at one end and we’re slowly moving across the country. We’re following the river, the flow of the river. And because all of those towns and streams and everything is going to be poisoned, if that headwater is poisoned. And something that someone mentioned in the group chat we had was, well what about Frank slide? Frank slide? We know the stories of Frank’s slide, the three of us, we live right here. I could see it if I looked out my window. It’s going to fall, a little vibration to a big slab of mountain like that. I don’t mean to be fear mongering, but they got to think of that consequence. Start thinking, okay, what if the what ifs again, what ifs? Let’s base our outcomes on three of those decisions. Let’s do something that costs the most to do something, fight against it or do nothing and just sit and wait. But there’s a happy medium where they just go away. It’s my dream just for them to go away and leave us alone because that’s our backyard and days I get tired, I get tired and I wake up and I’m even dreaming of this, dreaming of this fight. I wake up in a sombre mood because it’s sad of what they’re doing, not recognising Nicole. What Inez is saying is we have to protect the land, everything that is connected to the land because all our fights are all connected.
Jenny:
A hundred percent. And I’ll flip it back to you Nicole, and we’ll go to Inez, but I see what, to your point, Edna, I would be thrilled if we weren’t developing any fossil fuels anymore, if we were stopping any further gravel mining. To me, this is the place where we’re at quite honestly. It all needs to stop. We need to stop moving in this direction and start being okay with what we already have taken from the earth and each other for that matter. Nicole, do you mind reflecting some thoughts?
Nicole:
I’m more for sharing info so people can see the reality of this, which is where I like to keep that focus where people are understanding what’s really happening here because we do have a lot of people that are standing up and saying, oh yeah, we are going to get jobs, we need jobs, we need this economic, and well, just to quickly share with you, I ran for chief this past term and one of my goals was to start growing hemp and instead of growing hemp, we’re fighting off a coal mine that’s going to destroy the environment. That for me is really heartbreaking. We could have been two years in, but no, we’re instead fighting this, I’m going to push forward and stand with everybody to fight this. When people are talking about jobs, they need to fully understand how this works.
Harley Bastien, who was one of the speakers at our events, talked about this as it would’ve been nice to have him here too to speak on this, but he has a lot of experience in going to China and seeing what those coal companies can do to the land. When they were having their open house in Brocket there for the month of October, there’s a piece of paper there where it shows they’re just going to take this, say this much of the land, but then around it there’s another circle, a red circle, and they asked, my friend was asking, okay, well what does that one mean? Well, that’s in case they need to go more and more and more. It is going to grow. It’s not going to be this little size. This is what I talk about when we have to do our research and we have to get to every little detail of what’s happening with that.
Nicole:
Something like with the coal mine. I don’t know if our chief and council understand that it’s going to grow and it’s going to grow and they’re just going to keep taking the amount of water that’s going to be needed for that. The selenium levels that are, you know what, there was an event they had in Nanton where a friend of ours shared with us that it was stated there were like this with the selenium and the Old Man River. Now we’re just at that tipping point of having that overload of selenium. That made me really think and be nervous about this now with our water, the Old Man River, the people’s drinking water. One example I like to use is when they say you can’t eat more than four bazillion nuts or else you have an overload of selenium. Well, I know people will get that.
I like to use that example a lot. Again, quickly going back to the jobs, just to say the first and second phase of that coal mining is going to be maybe a year. And then after that, for the next 23 to 24 years, it’s going to be their employees, their technicians and engineers and everybody else. It’s going to be their employers that will be working for the rest of those 23 to 24 years. They’re just pulling the wool over our people’s eyes that we’re going to get all these jobs for this amount of time. And that’s not the truth. They need, again, you got to look at every little thing of what it is they’re offering.
None of it makes sense, none of it makes sense when you start putting the pieces together in this issue, and it does not make sense, but it’s going to say destroy southern Alberta and it’s going to go more down east, which I’m sure people now, like our neighbours Stand Off, they’re waking up now, being told of what’s happening. They’re now going to start coming out and speaking on their part of it as there’s going to be an interview today on it. They’re coming out, they’re going to be speaking more out about it and it’s with Danielle Smith and conservatives and our chief and council being with and business with this lady, Gina Reinhardt from this coal company who owns this company who’s pushing to put it into terms of I don’t understand how the conservatives and our chief and council are basically helping a foreign company to come into our space to get billions of dollars rich and leaving us with disaster and no drinking water. How do they justify that? I don’t get that when putting it in that kind of perspective. It does not make sense.
Jenny:
Not at all. Yeah, I want to highlight some of the things that were said in the Calgary hearing and then we can talk about what comes next, right. Edna, I love that you said that we’re, and I’ll let you lead off this one when I’m done speaking, Edna. I love how you said that we’re the David’s against our Goliaths here. This is, as you said, Nicole, foreign interests in our province. This will devastate everyone downstream. It’s estimated 2 million people are impacted by Grassy alone. Now what’s happened is during the grassy hearing, in January we had a follow-up hearing in Calgary that was limited to the proponents, the direct and impacted participants. We had people speaking for the Piikani Council, not the members. We had people speaking for the coal mining company and the Stony Nakoda Nation spoke for the project. But it was very important to note and mention that the rationale for the two nations was to ultimately get to restoration, get to that point where we’re actually cleaning up the land.
I want to make sure that that’s noted. They were okay with the exploration. To your point, Nicole, likely because this is the jobs that are actually being promised and not necessarily anything that would be promised afterwards. But the experts that spoke there, Lorne Fitch and Bill Trafford both spoke about the fact that, well, first of all, Northback offered no new data. To me, this is a very important thing that is noted now in record for any Albertan or anybody to see that in 2022, these projects were cancelled. All of them, no Eastern Slopes mining of coal. And the rationale was it’s not economic and it’ll devastate all of our other economies and the drinking water of anybody downstream. Northback had no new data to offer. Even though our government suggested that there was going to be some miraculous change in coal mining that will not impact the environment, Northback reassured us that there is no new method here. There’s nothing new that they’re going to do and that there’s no new data to suggest that what was found in the outcome of that hearing in 2022 is different. Therefore there’s no economic story here and only devastation.
Anyway, I just wanted to frame that for everyone and I did want to say that Lorne Fitch said that any activity. Let’s be clear, not just coal mining, any activity with trucks or with roads or anything is going to cause devastation to our existing or already troubled ecosystems. We have a reduction in salmon in our headwaters or various trout I should say, and those are, they will be impacted. The answer is no activity in the Eastern Slopes, not just coal mining. I just want to be clear on that. You’re bang on there, Edna. Okay, Inez, I think I rounded that out, I hope. If you wouldn’t mind, start speaking about what comes next for us. Please go ahead.
Inez:
Well, Mr. Fitch really did a good presentation and we want to try to bring that information to the community members. We already started gathering his information and creating a booklet for our members and we will distribute that upon request. And I guess that’s our next information session is the environmental impacts because it’s already widely known, but to actually see tangible information will probably help our members be more knowledgeable in their decision about it.
Jenny:
Yeah, absolutely. Is there anything more you wanted to offer from the other stuff? I’m sorry if I’m rushing you along at all.
Inez:
I did want to say that our Piikani members are a little bit confused regarding their decision about the coal mining because what our Chief Troy is saying, he is stating that if our Piikani Nation does not go with the coal mining, then all the benefits will go to Stony Nakoda Nation. Which is not true because in the AER hearing, Stony Dakota stated that if Northback doesn’t get this application approved, then they have no benefits, they have no agreement with nor back. All the land claims on Grassy Mountain are null and void. It’s not happening. There are two separate claims. There’s the Piikani Nation versus the Stoney Nakoda Nation land claims, and then there’s this coal mining. He’s trying to put the two together, give us an ultimatum and say, if this goes ahead then Stoney Nakoda gets all the benefits, we get nothing. Which is not true. He needs to tell the members the truth, separate the facts, and give them the facts straight. If the permit doesn’t go through, then all the best to us, that’s a fight that is won, but it doesn’t impact the other court case that is in the Federal Courts right now. I want to make that clear. That’s where our members are confused about, they need to not be confused.
More to Come, Education and Community Action Recommendations
Jenny:
Yes, excellent point. There is an appeal with the Federal Court right now that is supposed to be heard in the next couple months on this. It should be again, dismissing this project once again, which was done in 2022. Now that being said, the provincial government has undermined this process. If I may ask, and this is potentially putting you on the spot a little bit, but we’re now thinking with respect to the Federal, or sorry, the Provincial Government suggesting that they’ve lifted the coal moratorium again and things are open. We’re anticipating to see applications within a number of areas within the Eastern slopes now. One of my thoughts in terms of our work together is to make sure that we’re alerting any neighbouring communities as to these applications that could potentially show up with the AER so that we can be ready to make those statements of concerns and ensure that we have members, community members that are actually have standing, they’re close enough to those projects that they can fight them. We know the limits like you were describing all of you, how the AER doesn’t tell us, they don’t make it easy for us to know these things, so we have to do the work for them, which is a lot of technology.
We have a group, the Chinook Watershed Alliance, which includes you folks, and we’re now trying to work together to make sure that we can have a plan of attack there. Early stages, obviously, but I just wanted to say from my perspective, that’s how I’m anticipating us working together. But yeah, Edna, did you want to offer some thoughts about going forward, what you need from us, what ways people can help, what you see doing working forward with your communities?
Edna:
What I wanted to mention further into our information pamphlets and just disseminating this information within the community and making the community understand what the words are actually spoken and written via the chief and our leadership in regards to the back to the what ifs suffered the consequences of what’s going to come. Those two questions asked at the end of the hearing were asked by every special interest group, and our chief wasn’t there to be answering those questions because there was something more important that day. Our COO read his six page letter and he couldn’t answer those questions. Now after that we got the exhibit, it’s 128 for anyone interested in that exhibit, it’s 128. In it, it asks two questions, what if it goes through? What if we approve it? What are some conditions that you would want from north back? All the while leadership has been talking about economics, economics, economics.
Economics is the people and the resources on our land. That’s economics. But he’s failing to mention economics in his responses for any conditions if it does go through. And for me, I have to keep my voice in check because when I get my blood starts boiling, it gets really high. Just bear with me. In the conditions that he asked for, to me it’s data just so he can continue to hold that data and go drill another hole in the mountain. It’s not comforting me in any way. He also states to test the waters. Well, that’s going to be reinventing the wheel because in the $64 million we train people in the FEIA, we train individuals to do those jobs. I still have all their names. I know the company that did it, but they’ve sadly been overtaken. Anyway, that testing the waters, that’s [something {that’s already been done], we can’t reinvent the wheel.
That’s just throwing money away. Another thing was a quality air quality station. We as a community did not know that there’s already one sitting on top of the RCMP building. Mr. Trumpior told us that they’re, there’s going to be a bigger one built. There’s no land for that. We’re not giving up land for that. No. He’s also securing employment for whoever the cultural and environmental monitors are. We don’t know who those individuals are. See, he’s secured those monitors for the duration of the program. We don’t know who they are. Also, he keeps going back. Oh, and the last thing was he wants the information from the trail cams. And to me that’s the self that’s for self gain. Coming from a hunting background, my family hunts, my son hunts people that I know hunt. That to me is kind of suspicious to me looking at all these requests.
It’s just information. It’s just data, data information. Retain these two people, collect water, air quality, and we want pictures from the trail camps. I want those pictures. When she states the impacts of these throughout the conversation of this whole AER, he’s been mentioning our sand and gravel. Earlier on the first second day we heard there’s only five people employed in sand and gravel. Then he mentions the security. I’d say maybe there’s about 2020 of those. That’s 25 people. Whoever these two or three or four other individuals, these monitors, we don’t know who they are, they’re secured. And then he’s talking about potential training from Piikani employment services. Well, that hasn’t started. We’re still at ground zero there. We don’t know what we’re losing there if we’re losing anything that would’ve been already going. He’s also stating that we or our sand and gravel with those two.
To me, with a business background, my background is accounting. Hence my fixation on dollar signs. I need dollars. Before you sign anything, I need to know the dollar amount before I sign anything. These things are sand and gravel. Those five people, there’s got to be somebody in there to start soliciting marketing our sand and gravel to surrounding construction companies because we have the, yes, I know I’ve heard it many times before that our sand and gravel, our aggregate is the best in southern Alberta. It’s pebbled, it’s perfect. My walkway is made of it. It’s beautiful. But also within our employment, back to our employment, I think we just need to start being self-sufficient and write those proposals, those business proposals and get our people trained that way, not just looking in our backyard at this company that’s going to take down this mountain. There’s other places, there’s companies.
I worked on a project in Fort Mackay when they were building up Fort Mackay. We won an award for that project. I know this construction, our aggregate gravel can be used someplace else. The economy is just not fitting for me in the TRC, there’s stuff for treatment centers, elders, homes, post-secondary. Why weren’t any of those mentioned? Maybe a laundromat. Those are economics and those are standing jobs that’ll stay because like I said, the consequences, I suffered the consequences. We all suffered those consequences in the group here because there’s no economics. And who paid for this travel center again? Democracy failed as we voted “No” because we were afraid of that land parcel affixed to that building. We voted no. But lo and behold, we have a travel center who failed to bring it up when their chance they were a scheduled speaker.
I was excited to see, maybe they’ll give us some numbers of any revenue coming in from there. There’s no revenue. We haven’t done an audit and it’s public knowledge. You go onto the I NAC site, look for our audit. It’s not posted. So we don’t know any of the revenue coming in. So when they talk about economics, well, let’s get to the nitty gritty of economics. We can’t depend on people out there to put the money in our hand. Back in the day they were called to sit beside the Fort Indians. I’ve been trying to get in there. I even offered the Nation to write business proposals for them. Oh no, no, no. We already have somebody for that. I emailed her. She never replied back to me. Anytime somebody does want to do something, we have to get past the chief and council to get that approval.
I’ve been trying to paint a wall mural for the last four years, maybe even longer. They’re making me into a liar by not looking at my request. I sent the money back because I couldn’t hold onto that money anymore. Stuff like that, the economics are just not sitting [with me]. I don’t fully understand. But maybe they don’t understand economics, maybe they don’t understand how when you have a business, I’ve been running my own business, small business for the longest 30 years, and they need to start investing in the small business, make a playground for our children. There’s only one playground, believe it or not, in our Piikani Nation one and the last housing director May 22nd meeting. Look, a few years ago, I said, save some land for the children, save some land, save some green for our children. Nope, they’re just throwing up houses. And you’d be surprised at the economic loss we’ve had within our housing. The new builds, Jenny, you’d be surprised and just appalled at the new buildings that are sitting in our Nation sitting there not vacant. Why? It is because of poor decision making. And the concept of “ me” has got to stop.
Economics is the response. There’s no economics here. What are the economics? We’re going to suffer those consequences again, if people don’t smarten up and start saying no to this and start speaking up. But right now where we’re sitting today, I think all our lobbying right now is rallying. All our words are falling on deaf ears. They’re not listening to us. They don’t hear us. They’re choosing to ignore us. They’re choosing to shut their heart off to us. In native culture, in our natives, all our decisions are based on relationships. You make one or you break one. That’s just how And for you to make one that’s broken, well, you got to go have that responsibility. Go back and fix that relationship because right now there’s people that were close friends not talking to each other anymore.
Jenny:
Agreed. Yeah. It’s happening everywhere.
Edna:
It goes back to poor decision making and not including the whole community. And we have to step up to the plate.
Key Takeaways
Jenny:
That’s right. I love how you said that, Edna. That we have to start putting proposals together. And I think that’s a big part of what the work we need to do is to show can be done differently, right? What I’m hearing in those economic submissions is watching, waiting, wondering, learning, putting it in a pile and watching the destruction happen to me, monitoring is something that is spoken about in industry. Monitoring is not mitigating. I’m going to stop there. Nicole, why don’t you go next and then we’ll wrap up with Inez.
Nicole:
Well, I just want to say first of all that I’m very happy with everybody that’s getting the word out and doing a good job informing people now, starting to see people coming out and asking questions and wondering whether or not what they should believe or not believe. I’m glad that I’m starting. It’s small, but I’m glad there’s people that are starting to see. I just wanted to, I tried to put this in a big picture as fast as I can with how everything is turning out. And one of the things that was brought to my attention at the AER hearing this last one here in Calgary was when they’re talking about jobs, it was said here like the Australian Mining corporations, which includes Hancock Prospecting, owned by Reinhardt, are the global leaders in anonymous driverless mining equipment.
And this is something else a little, even if it’s just a sentence that when I talk about researching, people need to read about, because that’s all I’m getting sometimes on my feed is, well, we need jobs. Well, we need jobs. Well, this is another few words that state they are driverless mining. They have driverless mining equipment. The other thing was when mining for that, I can’t say that coal dangerous selenium, arsenic, and other materials are exposed and will travel in the runoff down into our rivers and creeks. Northback will also use our fresh water to wash the coal. They will need at least a thousand liters of water for every one ton of coal. This contaminated wash water will be held in huge ponds at locations with hopes that they do not overflow or worse break and release into our waterways. This operation will require massive amounts of fresh water.
Talking about those ponds, the example that I used goes back to what the Navajo people are going through down in the states in Arizona, New Mexico, down there with those coal mining and one of those tailing ponds or those ponds, it broke and that water rushed into the like a river where now they’re relocating those families that were staying in that area into the nearby town because they cannot be in that area with that contaminated water. Our people need to see that big, clear reality picture of what’s coming and what’s real. And the dangers of it that I feel our chief and council pawned us off. They pawn off our health, our environment, our water, our future generations, our relatives, the animals and stuff, they pawn us off. That’s how I take it as looking at the bigger picture of it. And they need to be held accountable for that because yes, they are there.
Yes they are. And chose to be in those positions and sit in those seats. And once again, I keep putting it out there. We cannot mix politics and personal. When they’re being held accountable and we’re calling out for transparency, that’s all it is. It’s not being personal. This woman, Gina Reinhart, is a very, very racist woman. That’s the other thing I just can’t wrap my head around with our chief and counsel working and allowing this woman to be here. And then at the AER hearing, when they talked of the description of the application, I spoke with the COO there at the hearing up here in Calgary, and I asked him if he could be more specific and more clear with the members when they talk about this application. And again, he just stood there and told me over just for the deep drill permit, that’s all they were going for or supporting.
I told him, I don’t think so. I think these three kind of go together under that one application. When he said that to me, I was like, wait a minute, not to be mean, but do you even understand what I’m trying to tell you? Do you not understand? And I’m showing him the paper and he said, no, we’re just support. And I said, no, they go together. Stop telling the people that this is a separate, it’s not these three under that umbrella of that application. I asked him to be more clear, precise with the people. If he knew about the history of that mountain, if he understood that there was something that was very precious to one of our elders that was buried up there, and that it was many, many years ago that it was buried up there. He had no idea.
He had no clue as to just that one story. I said, you guys really need to start doing your own research. You really need to start looking at our history and what happened in that area, why we are standing up for it and fighting for it today. And it’s not just that we’re fighting for everything. The three of us, Inez, Edna, myself, and many others that stand with us, we’re not only fighting the Alberta Government or Danielle Smith and conservatives. We’re fighting our own chief and council. We have two avenues that we have to go down and try to open those floodgates of “Please listen and understand what you’re doing is wrong”. It’s real, like Edna said, it’s hard. It’s frustrating, difficult, we lose sleep over it. I did not like seeing, at one of our events, an elderly lady literally sat at the table and was crying and said, I am not sleeping at night anymore. I don’t know what’s coming. That hit me. It hit me really hard that day because what do they not see and what are they doing? When they talk about Northback, not giving us any kind of money, well again, people are being, that’s misinformation. They’re not being realistic with the people leaving people out in the cold. Again, they don’t know what’s going on. More questions that need to be answered. None of it makes sense to me.
Jenny:
No, it truly doesn’t. And everything you said, I echo, I’ve lost sleep over this, the thought, there’s nothing good about it. I want to say something that Hugh offered when we were…That’s your husband, right? Nicole? Is that his name? Yeah, when we were down in Pincher Creek at one of the rallies. I just want to say Nicole, and I’m sorry, Edna and Inez, if I’m not clear of your participation, but Nicole has helped organize three events that were very well attended, mix of people from across different cultures and communities, let’s say, and excellent feeling of coming together in these issues. And I just wanted to highlight, Hugh had said, we can’t look at this as just a one-off thing. This has to be us glued together now appreciating that we’re in this together and that we have to work together.
The things that I want to make sure that I’m articulating for you guys, and for anybody who listens to this or follows this in a future recording is we’ve got, like I said, keep this alliance going. I hear, and I want to make sure that you guys understand we can work together in terms of having funding to help people be understood by giving out information to the community. Let’s say we can pull our efforts in that way. I’ve heard that the Alberta Resistance is hoping to do some interviews with Lorne Fitch and others. I think there’s another opportunity there for you guys so that we can make sure that, like you said, these key things that were said in these hearings. I love that you’re looking at the notes, Nicole. I’m also planning on putting out an article around what was said in those hearings.
It covered off so much, and to your point, Nicole, we can actually point to something that’s out there for everybody to look at and know that these are the statements that were made by the companies, by our government, by our regulator. I really liked hearing what happens if you don’t proceed with this project. I guess I’m leaving good. This is time for these big companies to step back and help us restore our ecosystems. At the end of the day, if we want to have water, we need to be focused on restoring our eastern slopes and all the headwater areas for that matter. That’s my commitment. I’m really excited for us to be working together and making sure that we’re helping this education go out across your communities and my communities and hopefully our broader community in general get stronger and stronger through this. Yeah, for sure. I want to make sure you get a chance to say something. Sorry, Edna, go ahead. If you have something quick to say. Okay, go ahead. Thank you.
Inez:
I’m just really appreciative of this YouTube and for you, Jenny, allowing us to have this platform for today because we really need to reach our 4,000 members of Piikani Nation and they’re all throughout Canada, United States, and we needed some kind of big platform to reach all our cousins and relatives out there. I thank you. And I’m hoping that when people do view this YouTube channel, that they reach out to us for the information and if they just want to chat about it and ask questions, reach out to us. We’re open, we want to chat, we want to connect. And this fight is really bringing everyone together. And that’s the only thing that’s good that’s coming out of this right now.
Jenny:
Well said. Mountain Child Valley Society has a Facebook page for people to join, right? There is an email that people can use to Right? MCVS, Piikani, that’s mcvspiikani@gmail.com. Is your email for anybody? Yes. I will make sure you guys know when this is final so that we can get it out to your communities. I’ll do some editing for us before I publish it officially. But yeah, I really appreciate your time. Any closing thoughts from anyone before we wrap?
Edna:
I just wanted to say, sorry. I just wanted to say further into the fights with the entities that Nicole mentioned, like I said before, our fights is falling on deaf ears in our own hometown. I think right now. Whereas a First Nation, our directions in life for the non-native and the native art have different. We have an Indian Act we have to break down. I think we got through to the chief and council. Now’s our next step. We have to start taking our fight to the big house, to the feds there. And
Jenny:
That was for us too. These are federal issues for everyone. Yes, please continue.
Edna:
Yes. But time and more so for us because that’s where everything is housed for us. Everything is housed. We can’t even start a business without their okay. We can’t do anything without their okay. If we start, keep on the momentum going by this, and I’m thankful for you for inviting us. Keep the momentum going, start the letters, the campaign letter writing, and now we take it up with the IAC, with Melanie Joly. She needs to be the one, the foreign minister because she needs to know that she’s letting in a foreign entity to come and encroach on Blackfoot traditional territory.
Jenny:
Oh, interesting.
Edna:
And that’s just a must right now. It’s a must. And speaking of history, I just wanted to point out, we’re not here to offend anybody. We’re not here to offend anybody. We’re here to educate people. We’re here to look at the history and to see how we can correct those mistakes. Back then we didn’t have the negotiating skills. Even today, they’re kind of lagging maybe because who’s negotiating for us, who’s speaking for us? We’re fighting for the unborn children, but we just have to keep that line of communications open with all our people. And this is a great way of getting our message out there, like Inez said, and Nicole saying, we need to reach more people. We need to reach more people and keep this going and keep the information flowing, doing research. Wonderful. And one thing I always say when I did facilitator training is if you don’t ask questions, you starve.
If you’re sitting in the back room and wondering, ask this question for me, you’re not going to get the food. Where’s the kitchen? You need to ask questions and learn. There’s no such thing as a dumb question. We’ll answer as best to our ability as to what we know and the knowledge. And this is all the knowledge we learned on our own. We did the research, we were there, we heard, we listened, we paid attention. Now it’s just trying to get people to stop the mountain as a whole group and working together. This collaboration, the collaboration is just wonderful working with everybody. I met so many people in the two walks that I attended and it was just amazing. It was amazing. I really thank you, Nicole, for doing that. We had fun. We had fun. We met people, but all the while making sure why we’re there and yelling, “Stop Coal, Save Our Mountain” and all those messages. And it just kind of made me feel like, okay, well the little girl in me came out where I could be real loud and just yell and scream and stop it. Stuff like that. You’re able to have the humour in it too, but not to forget those consequences that are coming if and will it does. That’s all I wanted to say. Yeah, thank you. And they’ll get the letter writing. And our number one point today was just to get the information out and not to offend anybody.
Jenny:
I feel the same way. I was nervous that I wanted this to go. Well, Nicole, I’ll let you off for some closing thoughts.
Nicole:
Just to close off, I just want to say that my grandfather Joe Crowshoe was working on diversity before he passed on and before he left, I whispered in his ear and I told him, I’m going to continue on your work. And I didn’t realise back then how hard it would be, but I’m going to say it’s not an easy job. But I have my grandfather behind me, my grandmother, and how when we have these events and stuff, I know, and we all know that our ancestors are always with us, especially as the creator. He’s always with us. When I first started speaking, I was a very shy person, but as I got through it, how I got through it was through the Creator. There was a second time I had to publicly speak and I didn’t know what to say. I froze. I said a little prayer inside and I asked, “Creator, you can speak through me and let the people hear what you want them to hear.”
Nicole:
I went through that whole speech without knowing what I was saying, but these words just kept coming out of my mouth. At the end, everybody was happy, thanking me for what I had said. I now do the same every time I [speak] out, I pray before we do our gatherings and stuff and I always ask and say, I open myself to you as a vessel, do your work through me. Because most of the time, towards the end there in Last Bridge, I was getting tired. We were on the go almost everyday. I’d get up at 4:30 or 5 am and I wouldn’t be back home till 1:30 or 2 pm. It was a really tiresome job. But again, I’m happy I did that. And that’s just my drive. My goal is justice, for indigenous justice. I speak out for the injustices, I see the people going through and I do my best to get to that main source to stop it, which is what we all are striving here now to do. Like Edna said, we got to the chief and council to have them hear us out and now we’re going the other way to the federal government and they’re going to hear what all the work we’re doing and we’re pushing forth to them.
Jenny:
Wonderful. However I can support you in that. I am very much happy to thank you very much. And I wanted to say what I forgot was thank you for all the years that you’ve been doing research and watching this and making sure that you’re standing up for Mother Nature and all of its inhabitants. Thank you so much for your time, ladies. I’m sure we’ll do this again. Thank you. Have an excellent rest of your day. Take care for now.
Edna:
Thank you. Thank you. We’ll see you Nicole. Thank you, Jenny.
Jenny:
Bye. Thank you so much.