Season 1, Episode 19: Where are the economic models?

Janet Pennington, Kristy Jackson, Lori Curtiss

The Gravity Well podcast delves into complex issues, breaking them down into manageable discussions. Hosted by Alex and I, the show aims to foster collaboration and address global dilemmas through conversation. Episode 19 acknowledges the historical and ongoing impacts of colonization, emphasizing the importance of reconciliation and environmental sustainability. The hosts and guests, including financial psychologist Lori Curtiss (amoneymakermindset.com) and activists Kristy Jackson and Janet Pennington, discuss the economics of happiness, the detrimental effects of globalization, and the need for local, sustainable practices. They highlight the importance of community, local economies, and the psychological aspects of financial decisions. The episode concludes with actionable steps for supporting local initiatives, advocating for political change, and fostering a sense of belonging and responsibility within communities.

Alex:

Welcome to The Gravity Well, where we break down heavy ideas into small buckets anyone can handle. Our mission is simple to set aside our differences and collaborate with others through conversation and processes. Together we can face our dilemmas and make our world a better place for all.

Jenny:

In the spirit of truth, I acknowledge we are settlers on the stolen Blackfoot Treaty Seven and Metis Districts Five and Six Territories. We take Reconcili-action by seeking the wisdom of elders and individuals who aim to restore water, air, land, life, and community, a healthy living relationship with the earth and each other is our guide. Welcome to the stage, Alex. I think you’re leading us off today. Why don’t you tell us what we’re talking about?

Alex:

Hi, my name’s Alex. A little bit of my background, mostly Arts and construction, a little bit of volunteering in private security, Jack of all trades, master of none, but autodidactic. I just love to continue to learn and that’s my lifelong pursuit, perpetual education as it were. Jenny and I met when she was door-knocking when she was running for office back last May 2023. We had a good conversation. We chose to stay in contact and take some education at DelftX, University of The Netherlands, in analytics, specifically. This is the process that we used to interpret information and ever since we’ve been just working alongside each other trying to figure out a way to apply these analytics to solving problems. The topic-specific is the video that was sent to all of you regarding the Economics of Happiness and environmental sustainability.

Jenny and I look forward to any of your contributions or interpretations of the video in a round table. We would also like people to limit their comments to three minutes so that everyone else has a chance to speak, talking stick method, and then we’ll do wrap-ups and roundups and everything like that. Everyone’s takeaway is not only from the video but the conversations and where people can find you, and who you are if you want them to find you. You don’t have to give that information, but if you’d like to get a little bit of promotion or establish some contacts with any of the listeners, that would be much appreciated. With that, let’s continue and I’ll pass it off to Jenny.

Jenny:

Some of you might know these faces by name. Kristy and Janet joined us in round one of The Gravity Well when we talked about choosing our own crisis. That episode was dedicated to defining what we see as the crisis that we’re facing in the world. Out of that conversation came some great takeaways. One was that we’re in a crisis of relationship not only with each other but with the earth. We put humans above the environment. We don’t think about the things that just come to us through our system, through our economic system. There’s a lack of fairness in what we see in the world. There’s an absence of rule of law that came from Mark Dorin, no trust in the government or information system that was Alex’s contribution to that conversation. Our leaders aren’t taking responsibility.

We don’t feel the problem, or the people who care about the problem, are represented by our leaders. Lastly, this lack of good faith goes hand in hand with trust. Those are the key takeaways of that discussion, and this is a follow-up to that because one of the pieces in that is Kristy brought forward the donut model. It’s similar to what this video offered us in this idea of a vision of the future in terms of the economy. I’m really grateful for that. And then we have a totally different perspective here. My good neighbour introduced me to her sister Lori. Lori, I’ll let you introduce yourself properly, but Lori is a financial psychologist. Lori has a company called A Moneymaker Mindset. Her goal is to take the fear and mystery out of finances and money. Allow yourself to discover and understand your memories and biases to gain insight into the financial choices that you make. Interesting to have your perspective.

I sent Lori the video. Thank you, Kristy. I believe it was you who brought this video forward for us. And then Lori asked to meet, and I watched the video and I thought, “Oh wow, that’s quite the information-sharing session” potentially for you. I appreciate you participating despite that big eye-opening offer that we gave. I can see Lori on my screen next. Lori, if you wouldn’t mind just unmuting and introducing yourself. Thank you.

Lori:

Hi, thanks Jenny. Yeah, I think my comment was it was “a little bit heavy”, but I got through it, and that was good. A little bit about myself. My name is Lori Curtiss. I currently live in Calgary, but I was born, raised, and spent most of my life in the Peace Region of Northern Alberta. I have a bit of a unique and deep understanding of the challenges, but the opportunities of living in the north are. I started this business A Moneymaker Mindset because I want to help people understand why they make the decisions they make with money and how we can cultivate habits to make better choices, to be more confident about our finances. And that’s after 20 years of being a certified financial planner with one of the banks. this was a leap of faith to lose, to leave my job and try this completely new idea. Thanks for having me.

Jenny:

You are welcome. Kristy, you’re next on my screen, please.

Kristy:

Alright, thank you. I’ve just been a long-time activist, I suppose. I was around for Occupy and Idle No More. My Facebook site still mentions the Wet’suwet’en people and all the actions that we had there before COVID-19 happened. I’m interested in the next big movement and I think it could be questioning the economy or I would like it to be because it’s such a basic thing. Our whole society is built around quarterly profits. That’s our only goal. We could have a system with goals around it, like staying within the planetary boundaries and supporting everybody as much as possible. Ensuring everybody has enough to live and we could do that with the resources we have. It’s just a matter of sharing. One thing I will say about this video, it’s 13 years old or so. What excites me is the Donut Economics. Kate Raworth, an economist from the UK, released a book called Donut Economics just before Covid. It’s fresh, a new idea, and I feel like people could rally behind this new model and demand from our leaders that they acknowledge that there are limits that we want to live within. I’ll leave it there. Thanks.

Jenny:

Yeah, fantastic. Thank you so much. It’s a bit disheartening that it’s been 13 years since, but I think there is a lot of knowledge in that we know what the problem is. We’ve answered all the Five Ws and now we’re into the How. I think it’s a great time to bring this video back to the surface and have this discussion. Thank you so much for bringing that forward. Janet, please introduce yourself to us.

Janet:

Thank you very much for the opportunity to gather with the four of you and your broader audience with The Gravity Well. I think this is a fantastic forum that you are working hard to make available to everyone through the YouTube platform. I am grateful for the relationship that I’m building with you, Jenny, and now you, Alex. I’m very glad to interact with you again, Kristy and meet you, Lori.

I am in recovery. I studied at Old College, Soil and Water Conservation Reclamation. From there thinking I would work in the oil and gas reclamation field. After a two-year stint there, I needed more experience. I travelled to Lethbridge shortly after to complete a degree in environmental science. I like to say that I begged my way in as I’m not extremely academic. I’m a little bit maybe too social, but I gained entry to the environmental science program at the same time that they were launching their agricultural program and I benefited from the classes there.

Janet:

As part of the co-op program at U of L, I had a fantastic opportunity to work at the Ag Canada Research Centre in their GIS remote sensing lab. Ground truthing down at one four identifying rangeland species that they help calibrate the imagery for the project that the researcher Dr. Smith was working on. I also worked for Alberta Pool with its last stand under that name before being dissolved and transitioned to Viterra as a junior Agronomist. I walked fields in southern Alberta primarily. I grew up in Calgary. My parents are from rural communities. My dad is from Pennhold/Innisfail. We still have family farming there. My mom is from rural Saskatchewan. Her line was “All good Albertans are from Saskatchewan.” I stayed and loved the people and the land of Conquest, Saskatchewan. Every year I would visit, absolutely I have rural roots and was quickly introduced to the species introduced in the dirty thirties.

Janet:

The Caragana, Conquest is famous for its shelter belts that researchers agricultural scientists came to see and their importance for reducing erosion on the prairies before zero till farming. these concepts I was introduced to as a kid and didn’t recognize their value. I also have worked with all of the major chemical companies out there as a crop protection specialist, which is code for a pesticide advisor. I have shared with you, Jenny, that I feel very solemn about the impact that I’ve had. Although I would talk about economic thresholds with growers and farmers, I did recommend the use and add rates of insecticides and herbicides to maintain the economic viability of their crops. Vandana Shiva was introduced to me by the company I worked for Syngenta as a climate activist that I should not give any stock.

Seeing this film again through different eyes at a different time in my life, I feel a sense of shame. I also recognize that I can, like Alex, I’m a Jill of all trades, master of none. I can take this accumulative experience and work towards a more ethical, sustainable future in agriculture as well as social and local sustainable initiatives. And right now I’m working part-time with Alberta Talks and this is on my redemption tour.

Jenny:

I feel it’s almost like an AA meeting. “My name is Jenny. It’s been two years since I have broken free from my contributions to this world that I am not proud of.” I know Lori, I gave you some of my background, but I worked in the oil and gas industry. Janet and I both feel a lot of shame in what we contributed to. However, I think I can speak for both of us in saying we didn’t fully appreciate what we were doing. I think there is a big part of the compartmentalization that once we break free of that, I think that’s where now we can be a little bit kind to ourselves. I know we wouldn’t contribute to what we wouldn’t want to.

Alex:

If I may just add one thing, Jenny. No experience is a bad experience and no experience or education is a bad education as long as you learn something from it. Working in pesticides and land acquisition and these chemical industries, for instance. You learned a lot about where your heart was not in what you intended to do. The first part of the redemption tour is to understand that you’ve acquired a lot of knowledge and as a result that’s established a foundation that you can build upon and can refine those skills that you’ve earned rightfully and turn those experiences forward in another direction that’s going to benefit people a lot more and it’ll help you sleep at night. The first step in that, if it’s an AA meeting, when it comes to environment and work experience is to forgive yourself and then move forward from there.

Takeaways from the Economics Of Happiness Movie

Jenny:

Thank you, Alex. I will add, too, that people often forget that the phrase of a jack of all trades and a master of none “is still greater than a master of one”. I think there is a big, that’s a big miss in that analogy. I wanted to make sure you think about it because being somebody who cares about that connection with others makes us stronger and like Alex said, we’re putting to good use. I’ll stop there. Let’s get into this video. I’m going to go ahead and tee us off. I’ll offer some of the initial thoughts I had from the video. I’m going to talk about the information and then in the next round, we’ll talk about our takeaways more in the context of each of us as well. And then we’ll do a little sign off as Alex said.

For me, some of the things that I heard in the video called the Economics of Happiness. It talks about globalization that has dismantled self-reliant economies and enslaved people. We have a very disproportionate distribution of wealth and services that has been a result. With this globalization effort, there’s competition that’s increasing and diversity is decreasing. we’re not allowing for this culture, this part that made us special and what is meaningful to who we are and where we live. But that’s being stripped away from us. People are lonely because of this and there’s a lack of identity and the motivation is this move towards an American way of living. Unfortunately, that is using five times the Earth’s resources. It’s not possible and it’s something that we have to change dramatically, as you said, Kristy. It’s criminalizing local small producers and it’s deregulating giant businesses.

We’re seeing that with agriculture. Just last week, Janet, you’d love this conversation we had last week with Shannon Stunden Bower of Niche Canada talking about big machinery. It was Bruce who added that big machinery requires wetlands to be removed. it’s all the additional problems that come from this massive system and it’s hurting landowners. I’ve seen it by listening to landowners who can’t sell their property, they have wells on it and the wells are contaminated and the companies aren’t dealing with it. That’s a crisis. Some people have gravel pits right beside them and the water’s being taken for fracking and they’re seeing pollution in their wells and I’ve had them say, this has ruined my retirement. All of that stuff is happening to us and yet we’re still committing to this system of things that don’t serve us.

Jenny:

And then lastly people are taking their lives. This is how serious this is. It’s not just farming as one of the sectors they talked about. There’s a worldwide farming crisis and I’m not seeing the local leadership here giving support to farmers. We talked about last week as Shannon Stunden Bower, the PFRA has been dismantled and as you said, Kristy. There’s an effort to try and get it back that people know. That’s the other thing that Bruce said and it’s been prevalent is we don’t know, like Janet, like you said, you learn this stuff as a kid and you didn’t realize how important that was or most people didn’t learn it and they’ve been handed down the system that they don’t understand why. There is a big opportunity in terms of giving people support and bringing back a sense of community. I’m going to stop there. Does anybody want to jump first or should I select someone? We’re going popcorn style here, feel free to unmute and I’ll bring you up. Kristy, do you mind going first?

Kristy:

No, I don’t mind going first. What I am very focused on is what the UN says that there’s just not a lot of time left to change course a bit, and that’s why I’m focused on an actual movement. Where is {the movement] after Fridays For Future, after Covid? There are lots of protests happening [about the illegal occupation of Palestine]. I’m very sad about what’s going on there and I support fighting back against genocide, and I feel the number of people who will be impacted by irreversible climate change is huge. We need to also keep our eye on the prize, which is getting our leaders to publicly address that this is happening. We still have our heads in the sand. Denial is a natural human reaction. Even some good friends that I’ve tried to convince about the doughnut, I’m not getting through to them.

There’s some denial that tipping points could happen and the time is now. I just think we should be bold and brave and willing to look foolish even and just somehow get a movement happening because we don’t have a lot of time. There’s a new movie coming out, Outgrow the System and it’s got Kate Raworth talking Donut Economics and I’m excited to potentially do a screening of that because even that three-minute video is just hopeful. It’s very optimistic and I feel like we could get people excited and wanting to come out to our rallies if it’s a fun time, we could use music. There’s much amazing music that inspires and is thoughtful. all of that. I did watch a bit of this video that’s longer and a little bit more heavy, I’m more interested in talking about what’s possible. I’ll let others speak now.

Jenny:

I’ll just do a little reflection before handing it back. I think I agree with you Kristy. It’s up to us. I’ve read Erin Brockovich’s book over Christmas break and she says Superman is Not Coming. It is up to us. You’re right, we have to define it and what I’m hoping to do is start talking about sub-regional planning. It’s all rooted in honouring our sub-regions and centering our economy around local decision-making in those areas. My focus in trying to honour like you’re saying this shift is I think we need to present, like you said, a different way. We have to do it, collectively. I don’t have all the answers, we gather that from the masses. We have got to start telling them what it looks like because, you’re right, I’m not seeing leadership coming otherwise. Quite frankly, as somebody who is a geophysicist and was in the industry for 22 years, it is complicated. The solutions are simple. We need to restore our environment and we need to restore community. But it isn’t easy to make those decisions. They are dilemmas, but it’s going to take us saying, we want this area, it’s the priority now you’ve got to come to help us out and get it started. that’s my logic with your thoughts, anyway. Janet, do you want to go next?

Janet:

Yeah, thank you. What struck me is how I had truly believed that the green revolution and industrial agriculture was required to feed the world. We are disconnected as an urbanite from the natural processes, the natural world. I was struck that they don’t have pollution in the community, the Ladakh culture, they didn’t have money in the sense that they weren’t using currency, but they didn’t have unemployment or poverty and not until industrialization was knocking at their door and multinational corporations did these individuals consider themselves poor. I’m concerned that in this day and age there are many international agreements, whether we’re looking at NAFTA, the agreements that Canada has with other countries, we will be hard-pressed to build on the important idea that we have more closed-loop systems, value-added products are created locally that we can sustain economies or create jobs and the commodities we need to eat and live here in Calgary, Alberta.

And then in particular with this Alberta government intent on propping up a sunset industry. That is oil and gas putting up roadblocks to everybody, as well as creating divisions between people. I am hopeful that our First Nations will be given more opportunities to manage and protect lands. However, I’m concerned that profits and governments incentivizing development and resource, non-renewable resource extraction, ignore the take, and make waste economies that are killing the planet. I’m trying not to be pessimistic, but I see that there’s a lot of work and I do find it overwhelming depending on your community, what the dialogue is there, your faith, and what that dialogue is there. Even in charity, we’re often told that, well, hey, oil and gas is looking after communities. They’re helping kids in sports, recreation and food programs. In the case of the Australian Mining Company, the misinformation is propagated here in Alberta from the government. these things are concerning to me.

Jenny:

Yeah, I hear you. The lack of acknowledgement, as Kristy also said, is like we’re not even really talking about the elephant in the room. That part is frustrating. Then, we’re still going not only in the wrong direction but using even more resources, which is alarming for someone aware. I was in a discussion this week, it was the author of Why Net Zero Isn’t Enough. The resources that could be used to restore are being held up in this development. We’re stifling our opportunity to fix the course by not using those resources right now when it’s critical. As Kristy said, we’ve only got such little runway here. It’s just important to turn it around. I think that’s to me, we’ve had the opportunity. Janet and I have been taking a course recently and learning about organizing the masses, and one of the things they’ve done in a secondary course, a similar theme is talking about the pillars of society.

I think the opportunity that I see for us to start getting this movement happening. Kristy, I agree with you, we gotta get this going, is to “rattle the cage” if you will. That’s the term I’d like to use is that we don’t stop trying to talk to this group that isn’t listening who’s trying to hold the status quo and instead, like you said, Janet, go to the faith groups. Let’s get some allies in these faith groups and this is all related. Let’s make sure that we’re amplifying those voices in those areas locally. again, going back to this sense of regionalism Anyway, Alex, can you please offer your thoughts as well?

Alex:

There’s a lot to go on with everything that you guys said on the war issue. I did some deep diving because I wanted to find out the carbon footprint of the seven major wars that we’re fighting right now and it’s 5.3%. if war itself were a country, it would be contributing 5.3% to the global carbon footprint. maybe we should consider the trillions of dollars that we’re spending on those campaigns could be reallocated to different projects. Soldiers follow orders, we can just give ’em different orders. Let’s start building houses. Let’s start bringing the essence of the goals of the original P-F-R-A back but with the new information and understanding of the environment that we have now. Sometimes good ideas are only good with the information that you have available at the time, but in the information age, when we have much more understanding of our biosphere, both the relationships between flora and fauna, I think there’s a great opportunity to reallocate some of those budgets that dedicated to destroying people for the sake of quick resource rather than building other people up, other cultures up.

Senator Lindsey Graham said yesterday, the quiet part out loud, he said, we need to back up Ukraine because we don’t want Russia and control of $12 trillion worth of mineral resources because then they’ll share them with China and not us. And that’s what he said. it isn’t about defending democracy in Ukraine, it isn’t about defending the Ukrainian people at all. It’s about $12 trillion worth of resources, which happens to be Ukraine. Its original name means “the fertile land” and it happens to be the most fertile land on the planet and they’re bombing the living %¥$! out of it. We need to look at this objectively in terms of the machine that President Eisenhower warned about in his farewell address and say, Hey, look, an unregulated military, industrial, congressional entertainment complex is going to be probably the single greatest threat that mankind faces.

War is extremely uncomfortable and highly divisive. It doesn’t need to be brought to the table in terms of what we’re doing to our environment. Now with regards to the throwaway society topic, I mean, if I give a cast iron pan to my niece and she takes care of it, it will outlive her. maybe we should start together as a culture, as a people focusing on producing high-quality products that can stand the test of time and emphasizing that we should take care and value the things that we have rather than just buying a Teflon pan from Ikea for 10 bucks and then just throwing it in the ocean every two years. Right? As far as globalization, maybe it should be expensive to buy a handcrafted bowl from Japan because it’s handcrafted and it was made in Japan, you should pay a premium for that.

It shouldn’t cost less than a handcrafted bull made in Canada from your neighbour. How are we supposed to compete with each other? How are we supposed to create something sustainable without understanding the local values of things? Maybe the paradigm shift is more in a shift in acknowledging those simple uncomfortable truths and establishing a shifting in thinking that comes off a person’s volition or a person’s cognizance rather than dictators at the point of a gun saying, be free on my terms. These are some of the takeaways, but working in my local community sharing seeds with my neighbours and growing food with my neighbours, it’s been the most valuable thing. I collected dead wood last time I went out by the river and I’m making a series of walking sticks for the old ladies who work who live across the street, right? I carved one and now she’s bragging, they all want one. These are all just little things that you can do locally that maybe won’t even make you a buck, but it’s, it’s fun, it’s creative, it’s the right thing to do. Maybe if we can encourage people to discover that being a part of their community and getting to know each other is a fun thing and we can sustain each other more functionally, then maybe there won’t be a need to burn 25,000 liters of diesel fuel to ship strawberries from Mexico when you can just grow ’em at home.

Jenny:

Thank you so much. I feel like you lightened the load, thank you very much, Alex, that was great. that’s perfect. Leading to you, Lori, he gave you a little bit of lightness. Help us bring it to the here and now and what you’re seeing in your work.

Lori:

To reference back to the video, my biggest take was Alex nailed it. We need to normalize being local and supporting local, but as a human, we’re not wired for this. We are wired to be a part of a bigger community. When the Ladakh were in their small community, that was normal, but when they saw the bigger community, that’s what they wanted to be a part of because back in the day, to survive, we needed to be a part of that bigger community. My big takeaway from the film was we have to normalize supporting locals, whether it’s Alex made me a walking stick, if this thing is great and I want more of them, or friends of ours are having a barbecue this weekend and everybody has to bring something for the food bank, and we’re filling a truck full of food for the food bank. yes, things need to change, but it’s hard because we’re just not hardwired to do it. That’s

Jenny:

Fascinating. That makes sense though. Once we see something bigger, of course, I can feel that when you say that. Thank you.

Lori:

I wanted to go back to what Janet was talking about a little bit with agriculture. In the Peace Region, the small family farm doesn’t exist. They’re gone. All the farms up there are these massive, massive corporations. How do we bring back the small family farm and talk about an AA program? My parents near the end of their farming life were organic farmers, not because of how they believed in it or the good of it was there was more profit in being an organic farmer. Is that how we bring back the small family farms anyway? Yes, we need to support local. You need to spread it on your Facebook and your Instagram or however, you get information out there because that’s the only way people are going to change.

Jenny:

Brilliant.

Alex:

Lori. Yeah, like the summer local markets, I’m developing a list of them, my wife and I, go to a local market every Sunday, and that’s facilitated by Bears Paw Community Association and the Lions Union, and it’s all local farmers, bison, tomato, potato, whatever you need. It’s a beautiful little market and there’s a whole map that you can get. I’ll see if I can find the link for it. I’ll ask my wife to send it to me. There is an opportunity to support local, and each one of these vendors has a business card. it takes a little more planning when you want to buy your food from these different people, you do have to, a lot of the times go to their farms, but it also becomes an adventure that way. And you can learn about how they’re doing these things. I just wanted to touch a little bit on the PFRA and their ideas in terms of incentivizing supporting and subsidizing local farmers, especially during the drought and the depression. And I think those are all good ideas, and I think our farmers or local farmers at least are being under-subsidized and underfunded and overtaxed, and that’s making it difficult for them to strike it out and grow some food locally and organically.

Jenny:

Amazing. yeah, I think now if we can just spend some time going around and talking about some of the action items now if we can talk about some of the things I’ll just return to, some of the things I like to visualize or talk about is number one to counter. I’m going to say we have an identity crisis. to counter that, then we need to look at psychological safety. to me, this sense of belonging. anything that we’re doing to serve a sense of belonging, a sense of choice and a sense of being good at something. I think about my kids and they’re going to school. I don’t know if going to university is something that’s going to serve them. I do think that learning how to be a regenerative farmer is certainly going to serve them. Being on the landscape and doing restoration work with watershed groups.

Jenny:

That’s something that I feel is really important work for people to be doing these days. it’s going to be interesting to see what that looks like for them. As you guys have said, reducing the distance between people and resources. I love this thought, Lori, of making sure that we’re promoting this local effort. I am thinking, I’m picturing all the social media platforms and people going on these grand trips, and yet when you talk about psychology, a course I took a while ago was saying, once you’re on a trip, it doesn’t matter if you’re in Canmore or if you’re in Timbuktu, your brain can’t distinguish the two. You’re already there doing something different. Even if you’re going to the next community, it’s the same stimulation. Let’s normalize [local travel] as being a positive thing rather than [going somewhere] far. I like the four returns model.

What Does Action Towards “Economics of Happiness” Look Like?

Jenny:

This is something that Colin’s brought forward for me the four returns are this return of inspiration. Always making sure that we’re inspiring. Alex talked about jobs. Yes, we have to talk about what these jobs look like. I’ve been going to element junior high and high schools talking about green jobs, and I’ve been saying this is a crisis of leadership, which means that every job is a green job going forward. You have an opportunity to help define what that looks like and also realize that there’s a sense of responsibility in inspiration. It’s a financial return, an ecological return, and a social return. I think trying to promote local activities that have those concepts in mind, I think are helpful. We have to address the big things, which are taxes and subsidies to make sure that we keep doing a counter lobby to the lobby that’s out there to fight all of those things. I’m taking some action in that space, too.

Finally, some regulations. We have a big group of people that are working locally, run by the Alberta Wilderness Association. A group of nine organizations are working together to help define what a proper regulatory body should look like in Alberta. We’re going to get very clear on that soon. And, in a democratic way. I think this is a big thing for me that’s positive and new out of this, which when people talk about older systems like communism or collectivism, it still lacks that sense of fairness and democracy and the class system gets removed [in the future]. This is the big opportunity going forward to design something new, as you said, Kristy, that does social democracy for real. We can get past this thought of just saying that we’re a democracy and rather being one. Those are my thoughts on this. I would love to hear some more. I don’t know, do I pick someone or does somebody want to unmute?

Kristy:

I will maybe go and I’m going to share the link to that little three-minute video. If you guys want to put it in a search later and get excited. Michael brought this to my attention and the website has a “organize a screening” button. I think Michael and I, and maybe this group or some group, can get this together. I’d originally thought maybe, this was about a month ago, I thought maybe before the summer holidays. I think September would be a good time because that’s when a lot of activism happens is people are back at their things. Anyway, have a look. See if you’re excited by that and check out the book Donut Economics. I mean it has tons of ideas, like all of these ideas that we’ve been speaking about are built into that, but it’s within a bigger model to talk about. yeah, thank you.

Jenny:

Thank you, Kristy. Let’s plan this screening. Yeah, I’m glad that we have something to look forward to out of this too. Okay, who’s next?

Janet:

I am going to remain a squeaky wheel in our political system, provincially. I keep waiting for some colossal up that will send us to an election. Our premier will have her leadership review essentially with the conservative’s general meeting that they’ll be having. I am continually aware that the federal election has the potential to change the economics of Canada in a negative, almost anti-Canadian way. I am concerned about a strong climate action plan. I am in favor of the carbon rebate that I receive as a Canadian, but I also strongly believe that we need to put a price on carbon. We need to cap emissions. We need to work towards equity in our resource management, and I am in favor of land back. I am also really intent on continuing my path of understanding how as a settler we move forward economically and environmentally through the lens of truth and reconciliation.

I still have a lot of work to do there. I will continue to remain active even if the Liberal government is not reelected and Conservatives and Pierre Poilievre becomes our prime minister. I am very concerned about poverty and equity and those pillars of democracy that I see potentially going to be bulldozed for privatization. through these things, those are my broad concerns, but acting locally, those taglines, what does it mean for me? I want to get back involved and regenerate my understanding of agriculture through the lens of regenerative agriculture. And whether that’s talking to my family about practices that we could consider for the farm, those dialogues are really hard. My dad just talking through his belief system and the barriers that I see between the political camps and the tribalism that’s occurring here in Canada and the skills that I’m learning in deep canvassing with Alberta talks are valuable with anybody that I speak with, whether it’s my kids or my dad or my cousins that are actively farming, understanding and collaborating personally as well as is in my community and hopefully co-creating.

You guys touched on that we are social beings. We need to be part of a network. I almost prefer to be alone because I have this mistrust and it could be in the systems that I’ve been educated and worked in. Changing that feeling of openly trusting people and working together is my goal. But trying to understand that my purchasing power can certainly create change. And the small things, even though I feel like a teeny grain of sand, understand that the changes that I make will have a cascade effect. Trying to be hopeful here in that last statement from the pessimism that I showed in the other.

Jenny:

Yeah, Janet, there’s much that resonates with me there. Yeah, the idea of just talking with family about things is one thing that is hard in this, getting past our belief systems. This course that you and I took has opened my eyes to some things alongside it. I know you love the Donut Model, Kristy, and I love it too. I also really like the Degrowth model, the Degrowth concept. And to me, and what I’ve learned in that is there is a structure. Our structure makes us think that when we care for the environment and when we care for people we’re lesser beings. That’s the structure that we’re currently in this capitalist system. it is something that has been ingrained in us through the years to feel shy about talking about these things because the system tells us that we shouldn’t be talking about it. We don’t talk about religion and we don’t talk about politics. The two things we must be talking about right now. yeah, I’m going to stop there. Alex, I’m thinking if you can lead us into the takeaway. I’ll get Lori to go next and then you can bring us home if you will, after you give your thoughts. yeah, perfect.

Lori:

Resonated with much, much today. Well, first of all, I’m going to be diving some more into some different economics topics. I did not enjoy economics in university, but definitely, we’ll dive into a bit more. But it just comes down to that. I appreciate you guys talking about the politics of stuff, but I feel disheartened by politicians and our political system. It’s up to me to make changes. No one’s going to help me with this. It is normalizing, supporting locals that other people see it and it becomes what everybody wants to obtain. I’d love to say that the politicians are going to help us with this, but until we push for it, it’s not going to happen.

Alex:

Lori, I’m disheartened with politics too. I’ve reached my state of critical mass. I’m tired of being lied to with regards to the trust issues for the same reason when it comes to these leaders and these media institutions, I’ve been lied to too much. Just anything that comes out of their mouths, I just see the ulterior. I am done with the politics. What I am interested in doing is getting to the root cause of these issues and trying to find a way to help galvanize and inspire people to make a difference locally using whatever skills and experiences they have. And it’s not important as if this one person has the idea, we’re going to follow them. It’s like everyone has an idea and everyone has a different skill to contribute to. The people at the podium are always saying like, oh, this is a threat to our democracy.

This populism is a threat to our democracy. Populism is a democracy. Populism is what the people want from grassroots to the federal government, and I think they’re grossly misinterpreting that. that’s about all I’m going to say about politics. I’m a construction worker. You need me to build you a garden box or make you a walk and stick. I can do that. But if you need me to develop a vaccine, I’m hopeless. Someone else is going to be able to change the oil. Someone else is going to be able to fix the plumbing. Someone else is going to be able to help me in horticulture and understanding my environment. No one else will help me understand the nature of my environment and how it’s balanced in history. The 7,000-year history I think that’s the single most important thing an individual can do.

Alex:

Justin Trudeau is not losing a minute of sleep over us. He doesn’t even know who we are and he doesn’t care. why are we entrusting him to fix the problem? And from a psychological standpoint, why are we still naive as a populace to think that we can elect one human being? And because we elected that one human being, they’re going to fix all the problems and we don’t have to do anything ourselves, that’s delusional. But what we can do in our individual lives is just make a few choices here that may be better and more functional and less wasteful, and then just hit repeat and then encourage other people to do the same thing. And I guarantee you that through just curiosity, open-mindedness, learning and willingness, we can change this from the ground up and it may take a generation, but the generation’s going to pass anyways. when are we going to get started? Those are my takeaways.

Jenny:

Alex. That was wicked. I’m just going to say, what Alex and I are doing right now based on this course, Janet, and also our schedule of learning, we’re having just conversations with what comes up. with our network and everything, but we’re doing it in the context of this course that we took to structure conversations so that we can have difficult conversations like this, heavy conversations like this, hence the gravity well, and be able to move past and make decisions. we’re doing a halftime report, if you will, that’ll come out after this round. Next week is the last one of this round. next week we’re meeting with Wesam, who’s head of justice for Palestine in Calgary. I’m excited to chat with him. I’ve been following him since November and the Watermelon Foundation is joining us too. that’s next week.

Jenny:

And then, as I said, we’ll be this halftime report in which we’re using this learning, this knowledge around collective power and dispersing power. The one thing Alex is great at, if anybody isn’t aware, is he’s good at giving me a different perspective. And when I talk about power, he goes, because he doesn’t want that political power, that thought of trying to build my power. And it’s not. It’s about dispersive power. How do we help the masses feel empowered? I think that’s the big learning that I’ve had and I’m excited to help us together. please know that Alex and I, and we have somebody else helping us now. Andy Rin, which some of you might know. yeah, Andy’s helping us move to the next level if you will. we’re excited about that too. that’s new to us.

Key Take Aways For Localization and Activism Efforts

Jenny:

You can offer, even if you don’t want to say what your work is, especially you, Janet and Kristy if you can say things that you are volunteering in. I think it would be helpful for people to understand what action looks like. For me, it’s getting involved in every group that I support. I’m trying to support them in every way I possibly can. And I know you guys are doing the same, I think if you could just articulate some of that would be helpful for people. I’ll stop there. Maybe we’ll go in reverse order. Lori, if you wouldn’t mind just remind everybody about your business and anything else you want to add.

Lori:

Yeah, thanks, Jenny. Yeah, the company I’ve started is a moneymaker mindset. You can check out my website. I’m on Instagram and my whole goal is to educate people on finances. I was always told I have a knack for explaining things that everybody can understand. And now I’m just trying to get the information out there. I work with clients to help them figure out their unconscious biases and help them make better decisions going forward. And as for volunteer stuff, I got to do a shout-out. I am very active with service dogs. I’ve raised several service dog puppies, one of which is passed out at my feet right now. if you’re looking for a group to support in Calgary, Aspen Service Dogs is great. In Edmonton, Dogs with Wings is the one I supported. It’s the most fulfilling volunteer job I’ve ever, ever had. check it out if you’re interested.

Jenny:

Awesome, Lori. Okay, I’ll go reverse. Janet, you’re next, please.

Janet:

Thank you. I mentioned Alberta talks and I started volunteering with Alberta talks to learn about the art of changing hearts and minds through compassionate, empathetic, non-judgmental conversation. My concern came out of the disinformation propaganda and hate that I was picking up on. I also alluded to the difficulties I have in my own family to have these conversations rather than breaking them into arguments and great debates. And I have all my data and I am right and they have their data and they are right. And we were just not able to talk about these difficult issues at all. After doing the deep canvas, I was afforded the ability to work part-time for Alberta talks. I am also looking for new opportunities as my kids are no longer in school. I was a volunteer at their school for about 10 years in their naturalisation area. I loved working with kids and talking about native plants, native species, composting, food waste, and pollinators. I want to do that type of work. Jenny, you’re in school. Maybe you take me along sometimes on your field trips, please. I’m looking to help you in any way in a capacity I’m excited about this Gravity Well project that you are successful in bringing us together in the community. thank you for that.

Janet:

I volunteer politically, I threw my name into the round for a bi-election in my community. And I sit on a liberal electoral district association. And Alex, I sat with the Prime Minister last week in Calgary. He does care about us. He is hearing us. I was one of the few people wearing a respirator mask. I still live my life very COVID-19, cautiously save it for another day. But I will be that squeaky wheel. I will continue to write letters and that thing, but that’s how I’m using all of my angst and energy in a productive manner rather than being home alone. And it’s working. I’ve worked through a lot of grief with people in this community and I appreciate you all. Thank you.

Jenny:

Amazing. I see we lost Kristy. She sent in a private note that she had to take off. Thank you much guys. Alex, do you have any closing thoughts before we leave? Thank you.

Alex:

I would just like to say that Janet, I have no issue with people volunteering politically. I find it’s a particularly toxic environment and as you were saying, it’s like everyone’s got their data and they’re not willing to have a conversation. I also met the Prime Minister and shook his hand and had a beer with him. His heart seems to be in the right place. I just maybe think that in some cases he’s not getting the best advice or when he asks questions, he’s surrounded by yes men, rather than people who are going to push back a little bit. He gets information as a federal leader that we’re not privy to and he’s not privy to divulge. that’s not an easy position for anyone to put themselves in. And I acknowledge that politics for me seems to be these days, 70 plus elections going on federally around the world.

I’m not interested in fighting people. My fighting days are over. That’s a younger man’s game. I’m more interested in people and I’m willing to speak with any politician across the aisle if they’re willing to. I’m not a gotcha-question type of person. I’m just interested in getting to the bottom of things so that we can work together to find some solutions. I appreciate your work and Lori’s as well. I very much appreciate your work. Financial Psychological Health is an under-discussed issue and I think it’s probably one of the most important issues going forward, especially considering capital gains taxes, increases in property taxes, the carbon taxes, and how it’s affecting the cost of everything and how people are stretched to the limit and it’s affecting their relationships and their ability to provide for their families and children. I think all these initiatives that Jenny, Janet, Lori, and I are trying to at least open the discussion to are extremely important and there’s no better time than to get started.

Jenny:

Lovely. Yeah, thank you much guys. Lori, as you said, we’re appreciative of you, especially for stretching a little bit here. I appreciate that. Let’s make sure that we get out, like you said, let’s talk locally, but also let’s talk about those things. Like Alex said, it’s really helpful to, in simple terms, how people understand how their finances are being impacted. if you have anything like that we can help promote and share information for people. Yeah, please point that out to us when we do the wrap-up blog for this. thank you both. We’ve gone a little bit over time, but thank you so much. And Janet, I am grateful for your allyship. I know what, you’re right there with me and I’m excited. Yes, I’m going to talk to KIPP about getting you involved in that programme too. I also haven’t put Colin’s name forward, it just hasn’t come to me yet either. both of you, I’ll put your names forward for that and we’ll get talking to some kids more. It’s nice to be in the classroom and get a few questions, that’s a good thing. yeah, absolutely. Have a great evening. Thank you.